Double taxation for early retirement

Forums Living In Crete Pensions and #Retirement Living Double taxation for early retirement

Pensions and #Retirement Living

This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  UTID Paul 20th May 2011 at 10:41 am.

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  • #30747

    crete4ever
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        Left the UK 10 yrs ago, took early retirement and receive a pension from West Yorkshire Pension Fund. (ie Local Govt)

        Have been taxed in the UK since this time however now (ok 3 yrs ago….I am classed as a Tax payer in Greece)

        Has anybody had dealings with the application of tax relief at source form  (DT/Individual), and in particular what documentation the UK require from the Greece Tax office to enable a tax refund within the Double Taxation laws.

        Thanks for any help.

        Thought UK tax laws were complicated…..

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        #31127

        Binx
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            Best to see a good solicitor either in UK or Crete.

            If you can get someone to go to a CAB office , and get the " Ombudsmans" leaflet, then you may find out more.

            #31399

            Binx
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                You could find out more on … saga.co.uk

                #31588

                rose
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                    Phone your tax office they will send form fill in and wait took me 4 months but got all tax back.

                    #31725

                    x5kmt
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                        I think this is where you need to look first, Crete4ever.

                        http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/app_dtt.htm

                        Look under Specialised Income and Royalty Claims, your LA pension comes under UK Gov. Pensions. The forms may be downloaded from the site.

                        Kathleen

                        #31835

                        crete4ever
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                            Thanks for that info Rose and x5kmt.

                            Shall give them a ring today and see what they need from Greece.

                            #31920

                            altohb
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                                http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/uk_gov_pensions.htm

                                Gives the details of which types of income fall under the DT treaty. As I understand it, government pensions need to be declared & taxed in the UK, and private pensions here. The DT form (downloadable) has a declaration which the tax authorities in Greece need to sign. I translated it into Greek and took it into our local tax office for signature – no problem. Many Greek accountants seem very wary of the DT process though, so be warned that you might encounter some resistance, if you need to use it!

                                #31992

                                crete4ever
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                                    Thanks altohb, rang the hmrc and they say my Local Gov. pension is allowed re double taxation here in Greece.

                                    You say you translated the DT/individual form into Greek, was this an official translation via the Greek Foreign Office in Athens or maybe a Kep translation?

                                    What stamps were on the translation for the UK to accept the form?
                                    My accountant is also very wary of this form.
                                    Thanks for the help.

                                    #32043

                                    altohb
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                                        I translated it myself – just the declaration at the bottom of page 1 of the form – here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/dtindividual.pdf, so that the officials knew what they were signing! It was stamped with the official tax authority stamp, from what I remember. We’re now in our 3rd year of being officially tax resident and declaring the pension here. The only "quibble" we’ve had to deal with is to obtain from the pension provider a statement giving the payments over the calendar year, rather than April-April, as is normal in the UK. We submit the figures in sterling, and there is an "official" conversion rate into Euros, which is what goes on the tax return.

                                        Maybe I’m lucky in that the people in the tax office in Sitia are helpful, and that there is a lady there who speaks very good English, but this really should not be difficult. Certainly once I’d had the form signed and submitted it to HMRC action was swift and (surprisingly) profitable!

                                        Good luck.

                                        #32083

                                        crete4ever
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                                            I think you are very lucky altohb, here in Chania tax office it is utter confusion and chaos.

                                            You say you translated the declaration into Greek but you must have had to translate the whole document to prove to them what they were signing for. If not, lucky you.

                                            Been here 10yrs and the system still bucks me off.

                                            The P60, as you say, only shows tax April/April,  how did you get round this to claim the extra 4 months?

                                            So as of now you pay no tax on your pension? (Not the OAP)

                                            #32111

                                            altohb
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                                                The English speaker was able to understand enough of the document (once I had explained it to her clearly) to be happy with the translated declaration – she then went through it all with her colleague, who was the one to sign & stamp it.

                                                The P60, as you say, only shows tax April/April, how did you get round this to claim the extra 4 months?

                                                Once we’d filled in the form and sent it off to HMRC, they did the rest – dealt with the pension company direct and gave a refund of overpaid tax. No tax is now paid in the UK on this pension – it is declared here and therefore subject to Greek tax rules. Hope you can get sorted – if you look at the declaration, all it says is that the Greek authorities are asked to declare that you are resident in Greece under the terms of the DT treaty and that you are, therefore, liable for tax. Given the legislation which is pending, all foreigners living here full time will soon have to deal with this, so it is to be hoped that the tax offices will get their acts together!

                                                #32133

                                                crete4ever
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                                                    Thanks again altohb,

                                                    At the moment my accountant is " trying to " deal with this.

                                                    I think a personal visit, with him, to the Tax office and the people involved will clear up many problems that they have and maybe help others in the future.

                                                    Watch this space,  ermm, lets see…

                                                    Thanks again.

                                                    #32151

                                                    UTID Paul
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                                                        I have been advised by my IFA that I may be beeter off by taking my private pension as a gross figure and paying tax in Greece. What is the maximum pa that you can take without being liable to pay tax in Crete and what is the base rate of tax? I can arrange my monthly pension to arrive at a figure that in theory avoids tax and my wife can draw from her pensions to the same effect. It’s just a question of knowing what the maximum levels are so any feed-back would be appreciated.

                                                        Thanks

                                                        Paul

                                                        #32167

                                                        ammoudara
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                                                            I took early retirement when I was 57 and moved to France. I applied fo rthe option of paying French tax and was awarded UK tax exemption. Subsequently moved here to Crete in 2002, made the UK aware that I was being taxed on any earnings by Greece. My UK tax exemption was accepted again and still is ongoing.
                                                            Hope this helps and keep :)
                                                            All the best

                                                            #32183

                                                            UTID Paul
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                                                                Thank you, this ties in exactly with our plans and pleased to know it actually works.

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