National Insurance Credits for over 60s

Forums Living In Crete Pensions and #Retirement Living National Insurance Credits for over 60s

Pensions and #Retirement Living

This topic contains 19 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  YoMo2 30th December 2012 at 4:58 pm.

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  • #42921

    YoMo2
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        Plenty of us will be aware that if you are over 60 and do not have enough NI contributions for a full pension, the gov makes automatic NI credits for you until you reach 65 (talking about men).

        You do NOT get this if you "spend more than 182 days abroad".

        This seems like pure discrimination against those lucky enough to have a holiday home abroad, or who have decided to emigrate.

        The European Court of Justice recently ruled against UK gov on the subject of Winter Fuel Payment, which was also being denied to those who had moved abroad before 60th birthday, but was being paid to those who moved abroad after their 60th!! See the thread entitled "Heating Susidy" (sic), on this board for more on that.

        My question here is does anyone have any knowledge of doing battle with UK gov re the NI credits? I’m just wondering whether anyone has heard anything about an ECJ case on this, since it seems exactly the same type of discrimination as in the WFP case. >:( >:(

        Andrew

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        #43344

        Herby
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            3C3339243A6C6F6E5D0 wrote: Plenty of us will be aware that if you are over 60 and do not have enough NI contributions for a full pension, the gov makes automatic NI credits for you until you reach 65 (talking about men). 

            You do NOT get this if you "spend more than 182 days abroad".

            Because you are not considered tax resident in the UK if you spend more than 182 days abroad. If you are not tax resident why do you expect to get the benefits?

            Also, you knew the rules, they have not changed, so why complain because they are not in your favor?

            #43620

            YoMo2
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                Not sure why you should think I "knew the rules", as you put it. Not everyone investigates every tiny detail of the tax and pension rules before deciding to emigrate.

                And I expect to get the benefits because I spent 35 years paying in. Why should I be penalised compared to someone whose circumstances are precisely the same, but has stayed in the UK?

                #43819

                latsida
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                    http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/state-pensions/national-insurance-credits

                    my partner paid the shortfall in his NI contributions to obtain his pension ;)

                    #43980

                    YoMo2
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                        Yes, but my point is, why should he have to for the years after he was 60? If he’d stayed in the UK he would have got auto-credits.

                        Andrew

                        #44113

                        latsida
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                            but we came here long before he was 60 and the shortfall was for the tax year 98/99 , other than that he had the required contributions ;)

                            #44212

                            YoMo2
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                                Fair enough. I would not complain about that.

                                Anyone any answers to the original question?

                                Andrew

                                #44296

                                Del Boy
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                                    You paid 35 years into the system, I paid 50 years into the system, you can’t expect to get the same. I spend 6 months of the year in Crete, some times longer.
                                    I can’t get a rebate on my council tax in the UK, I still pay for 12 months, It’s not the answer to your question but it’s the price we have to pay.

                                    #44368

                                    latsida
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                                        state pension is now paid with 30 years of NI contributions so you should be ok, see here

                                        https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/why-pay-voluntary-contributions

                                        #44428

                                        YoMo2
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                                            Guys, I thank you for your comments, but we’re a bit off the point. It’s not about how many years I’ve paid in, nor how many years you need for a full pension.

                                            The point is this. Say I’ve only got 20 or 25 years NI contributions after I stop work. When I reach 60, I automatically get 5 years of credits, but only if I spend more than 6 months a year in the UK.

                                            Why should I be penalised for living abroad? Two identical cases, same contributions, same everything, one lives abroad, one in the UK. Why does the guy living abroad not get the same treatment?

                                            Basically, it’s discrimination. And to return to my first post, the same type of discrimination re WFP has been disallowed by the ECJ. So, I’m trying to find out whether anything has happened re NI credits. Looks like a no.

                                            #44483

                                            Herby
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                                                7778726F71272425160 wrote: Why should I be penalised for living abroad?  Two identical cases, same contributions, same everything, one lives abroad, one in the UK.  Why does the guy living abroad not get the same treatment? .

                                                ‘Cos rules is rules! If you have rules you don’t need common sense or logic ‘cos there ain’t none.

                                                It could also be argued that, by not living in the UK, you are not contributing to the economy by spending your cash there, paying VAT on what you buy, paying Council Tax and paying fines for parking more than 19 inches from the pavement and the million and one other schemes they have to part citizens from their hard earned cash.

                                                Personally, I am glad not to be living there, at the end of the day losing out a some benefit is a small price to pay.

                                                #44528

                                                YoMo2
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                                                    Well, poor fool you if you just go along with whatever rules the government decides to impose this week.

                                                    You weren’t by any chance a civil servant were you?

                                                    Fortunately for all of us, there are people who challenge the rules in court and win.

                                                    Andrew

                                                    #44568

                                                    Herby
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                                                        I have responded politely and respectfully.

                                                        Please do the same.

                                                        #44601

                                                        Gem
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                                                            Thank goodness I’m under 60 and have paid all my contributions plus more! Will be glad to be alive by the time I reach the State Pension age and that will be more important than what I actually get!!!!! ;)

                                                            #44631

                                                            YoMo2
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                                                                Well Herby. Most thinking people would agree that only a fool blindly follows rules without considering their logic. So, I can hardly apologise for my opinion on that. However I am sorry if that offends you.

                                                                I cannot help but be amused that you put on a huff after your flippant, unhelpful comments in response to a serious post asking for help.

                                                                Consider someone who is desperate for income and needs to get everything possible from the UK Gov. Do you really think your comments would be found polite and respectful by them? No, I don’t think so.

                                                                #44653

                                                                Herby
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                                                                    646B617C62343736050 wrote: Well Herby.  Most thinking people would agree that only a fool blindly follows rules without considering their logic.  .

                                                                    ………but in another thread you said:

                                                                    3639332E30666564570 wrote:
                                                                    I’ve long since given up looking for logic in the tax system, Greek or British.  Andrew

                                                                    I said that there was no logic and yet you say I’m flippant!!
                                                                    I also explained why you were not eligible, yet you say this is unhelpful?

                                                                    Most thinking people would agree that only a fool decides to emigrate without checking what impact this might have on their government pension and what benefits they can claim both in the UK and in their adopted country (if they may become benefit dependent). However, I am sorry if the truth offends you.

                                                                    Never mind, somebody will be along soon to offer succor and sympathy.

                                                                    #44674

                                                                    latsida
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                                                                        it is not a universal entitlement, and they started phasing it out a couple of years ago.

                                                                        also why does the British tax system always have such weird dates for claiming anything ?
                                                                        the tax year runs from April til March!!! and the qualifying dates for these payments are October, so if you were born 5th Oct in each qualifying year you get one year more entitlement than someone born a day later, why not just say anyone born that year gets the same? they never make things simple ;)

                                                                        Auto-Credits For Men

                                                                        Since April 1983, men with no liability to play Class 1 or 2 NI contributions, have been credited automatically for the tax year they reach 60 and the four following years, provided they are not absent from the UK for more than six months.

                                                                        These Auto-Credits for men will be phased out between April 2010 and April 2019 in accordance with the following table. The proposal to extend the Auto-Credits scheme to women has been rescinded.

                                                                        Date of Birth Auto-Credit Entitlement
                                                                        On or before 5 Oct 1950 5 years
                                                                        6 Oct 1950 to 5 Oct 1951 4 years
                                                                        6 Oct 1951 to 5 Oct 1952 3 years
                                                                        6 Oct 1952 to 5 Oct 1953 2 years
                                                                        6 Oct 1953 to 5 Oct 1954 1 year
                                                                        On and after 6 Oct 1954 Nil
                                                                        You cannot get automatic credits for any tax year when:

                                                                        you spend more than 182 days outside the UK;
                                                                        you have to pay National Insurance contributions as an employed or self-employed person; or
                                                                        you are entitled to another credit, for example Incapacity Benefit or Employment and Support Allowance.

                                                                        #44693

                                                                        YoMo2
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                                                                            Latsida, thanks for that. I do understand the rules. My question is the one I asked before (see quote below). Surely this is the same discrimination as has been disallowed by the ECJ in the Stewart case?

                                                                            4E414B56481E1D1C2F0 wrote: Why should I be penalised for living abroad?Two identical cases, same contributions, same everything, one lives abroad, one in the UK.Why does the guy living abroad not get the same treatment?

                                                                            #44708

                                                                            latsida
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                                                                                ask your MP ;) ;) ;)

                                                                                #44722

                                                                                YoMo2
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                                                                                    Maybe my Greek MP will know? ;D

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