Skip to content
Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  
  • Author
    Posts
  • #19399
    ferretbind
        • Topics: 11
        • Replies: 4
        • Total: 15
        • BIC Junior Member
        • ★★★
        Member since: 30th July 2006

        After living here permanently for the passed 6 years we are now trying to complete the paperwork to enable us to pay tax on our pensions here in Greece rather than the UK. We completed the forms DT/Individual issued by the UK tax office and our accountant advised that the forms have to be translated into Greek ( at a cost of 300 euros ) before the Greek tax office can sign them. I appreciate the need for this although find the cost somewhat high but now we are informed that the Greek tax office will only sign the translated Greek copies and not the original copies which will not be acceptable to the UK tax office! So at this point we seem to be stuck. The form DT/Individual states that if the tax authority in your country of residence will not sign the form then a ‘one off certificate’ issued by that country confirming that you will be liable to taxation in that country is acceptable. Maybe this route might be easier? I think this is the first time our accountant has attempted this task so if anyone out there has successfully done what we are attempting any tips or advice would be so very welcome.

        Compare hotel prices and find the best deal - HotelsCombined.com
        BullionVault

        #19886
        latsida
        Participant
            • Topics: 165
            • Replies: 2407
            • Total: 2572
            • Practcally Cretan
            • ★★★★★★
            Member since: 17th October 2006

            We tried to do something similar a few years ago.
            we took the forms to the tax office here but they needed to be translated so we went to a solicitor here whose clerk translated them for about 60 euros,there is also a translation service at the British Embassy in Athens I think ,but the cost is per page .
            Anyway after doing all this went back to the Tax Office here and they really were not interested .
            The Greek tax Dept. are only interested in money accrued here.
            Are these your State or personal pensions?
            Eventually we sent all the forms back to the UK explaining what we had done.
            Think the difficulty lies in the fact that these are UK tax payments and Greek tax has slightly different rules
            also the currency difference, as Topdriller has pointed out,the pound may soon be fluctuating ,so at the end of the year how could they assess what you needed to pay,also the Greek tax year is from !st of January till the 31 December so all your P60,s will be of no use.
            Could be completely wrong about all this of course but we now have a nil tax code on our UK payments.
            Maybe someone else has better knowledge of this but would hate for you to have to spend such a large amount on translation and then be referred back to the UK as we were.

            #20157
            altohb
                • Topics: 49
                • Replies: 223
                • Total: 272
                • Practcally Cretan
                • ★★★★★★
                Member since: 10th July 2007

                I really think that the approach to this varies (as with so many things) depending on where you are! We went through this procedure for the first time this year, having verified at our local tax office that we should be declaring the English pension (occupational pension, not the state one) here. I provided all the monthly pay slips for Jan-Dec 08 – as you said, P60 is no use – and got a letter from the pension provider verifying the figures. This was then entered onto our return in Euros – there is an "official" conversion rate. The tax office happily signed the DT form, as I’d translated the declaration (at the bottom of the front page) into Greek, and explained the form to the English speaker whom I know there (my Greek isn’t good enough for that kind of conversation). Then sent the form to the UK and after a while tax code was changed to NT, so pension is now paid gross. At no time was I asked to get the whole thing translated.

                Hope this is helpful – you certainly should be declaring your pension here. I think the legislation has been around for some time, but they now seem to be tightening up on it. The same applies, in theory, to bank interest in the UK, but we haven’t gone down that road yet – one thing at a time seemed to be sensible!

                #20350
                Bell
                    • Topics: 15
                    • Replies: 35
                    • Total: 50
                    • BIC Old Hand
                    • ★★★★
                    Member since: 14th September 2009

                    Forgive me if I am wrong, but I was told that it was better to be taxed in Britain as everybody has a tax free allowance.
                    At the moment I believe it is about £5-6000 before any tax is paid.
                    In Greece however, I am told that unless you  are a Greek national, you have to pay tax on the first euro of income, no matter where it comes from.
                    Has anybody heard anything different? :-?
                    Bell

                    #20491
                    Crete4me
                        • Topics: 12
                        • Replies: 244
                        • Total: 256
                        • Practcally Cretan
                        • ★★★★★★
                        Member since: 14th November 2005

                        We now declare our income in Greece and have an NT tax code (No Tax) in the UK. For us this actually works in our favour as company pensions are tax free for the first 12000E (without double checking I think 12000 is correct).
                        When we sent the appropriate forms back to the UK tax man he / she very kindly gave us a tax rebate not only for this fiscal year but right back to the day we left the UK.

                        This link might help….. http://www.worldwide-tax.com/greece/greece_tax.asp

                        #20598
                        latsida
                        Participant
                            • Topics: 165
                            • Replies: 2407
                            • Total: 2572
                            • Practcally Cretan
                            • ★★★★★★
                            Member since: 17th October 2006

                            Bell.
                            if you are employed in the UK your employer tells the government how much you will earn per year and you are given a Tax Code and tax is deducted from your wages as soon as you start your employment
                            if you are a pensioner and earn more than your Tax allowance then you must pay tax..
                            My personal pension is so small it is inconsequential and I do not have to pay tax on it here.

                            #20681
                            altohb
                                • Topics: 49
                                • Replies: 223
                                • Total: 272
                                • Practcally Cretan
                                • ★★★★★★
                                Member since: 10th July 2007

                                5451594349100 wrote: Forgive me if I am wrong, but I was told that it was better to be taxed in Britain as everybody has a tax free allowance.
                                At the moment I believe it is about £5-6000 before any tax is paid.
                                In Greece however, I am told that unless you  are a Greek national, you have to pay tax on the first euro of income, no matter where it comes from.
                                Has anybody heard anything different? :-?
                                Bell

                                As Crete4Me says, the tax free allowance here is around 12,000 Euros, for resident pensioners, so I think most people are likely to be better off here, if they are permanent residents (given the current rate of exchange). The rules for non-residents are different, however, and the Greek authorities have a different interpretation of "residence" from HMRC. You need to check all this out carefully, as it is your residence status that is the crucial factor here. Your accountant should be able to advise as to whether or not you are classed as resident for tax purposes. Obviously, if you just have a holiday home then you are probably non resident, but if you live here all the time then if you fulfil certain criteria then you are treated as resident.

                                #20752
                                ferretbind
                                    • Topics: 11
                                    • Replies: 4
                                    • Total: 15
                                    • BIC Junior Member
                                    • ★★★
                                    Member since: 30th July 2006

                                    To all those who took the time and trouble to offer so much useful advice – a big thank you. I was sure that I was not the only person to attempt this but it sure felt like it at times. Now I feel encouraged to carry on and see it through, thanks again.

                                    #20806
                                    altohb
                                        • Topics: 49
                                        • Replies: 223
                                        • Total: 272
                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                        • ★★★★★★
                                        Member since: 10th July 2007

                                        You are welcome – good luck with it!

                                        #20852
                                        Bell
                                            • Topics: 15
                                            • Replies: 35
                                            • Total: 50
                                            • BIC Old Hand
                                            • ★★★★
                                            Member since: 14th September 2009

                                            I must be suffering from old age brain death :D, because I am still confused. Before we left the  U.K., we went to the local taxation office.
                                            We were told that in Greece, residents were allowed 12000 euros tax free. However, we were also told that this was only applicable to Greek nationals. All other nationalities, no matter how long they had been resident, paid tax from the first euro of income, even if their only income was an old age pension.
                                            It seems I was misinformed by the U.K. tax authorities!!!!

                                            I am permanently resident in Crete. I receive a state pension, and a tiny personal pension. I pay tax on both of these. I also have a bank account in the U.K. (for which I keep a U.K. address). Any interest I earn on this, is also taxed.

                                            If I elect to be taxed in Greece, would I have to give up my U.K. bank account?
                                            Thanks Bell

                                            #20887
                                            Ken1
                                                • Topics: 117
                                                • Replies: 990
                                                • Total: 1107
                                                • Practcally Cretan
                                                • ★★★★★★
                                                Member since: 2nd October 2006

                                                43464E545E070 wrote:
                                                If I elect to be taxed in Greece, would I have to give up my U.K. bank account?
                                                Thanks Bell

                                                A good question Bell.

                                                If you have a UK bank account and address would the tax office consider you to be a permanent resident in Crete.

                                                I do not know the answer to this merely a thought in my head.

                                                I do not have a UK address and when my bank was informed that I would be permanently resident here they closed my account after 6 months.

                                                Of course if I had have given them a relatives address they would have kept it open but i chose not to do this.

                                                Probably not helpful to you but just my thoughts.
                                                Ken.

                                                #20917
                                                Anonymous
                                                    • Topics: 410
                                                    • Replies: 3735
                                                    • Total: 4145
                                                    • Practcally Cretan
                                                    • ★★★★★★
                                                    Member since: 1st January 1970

                                                    7D78706A60390 wrote: I also have a bank account in the U.K. (for which I keep a U.K. address)……………………….If I elect to be taxed in Greece, would I have to give up my U.K. bank account?

                                                    I have a UK bank account with Barclays Bank. They have my address here and are happy to send statements by post to my home in Crete. (I have no UK address).

                                                    By the way, the UK tax allowance for a pensioner is £9,300 pa so the Greek allowance of 12,000 Euros is currently better due to the exchange rate but, should the pound increase, would you be able to change back and be taxed in the UK?

                                                    If you are taxed in the UK, you pay tax at 20% on anything above your allowance (up to so much before it becomes 40%). What is the starting rate of tax in Greece?

                                                    John

                                                    #20943
                                                    x5kmt
                                                    Participant
                                                        • Topics: 29
                                                        • Replies: 679
                                                        • Total: 708
                                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                                        • ★★★★★★
                                                        Member since: 12th November 2005

                                                        524943000 wrote: By the way, the UK tax allowance for a pensioner is £9,300 pa 

                                                        That rate only applies to over 65’s John. £6475 up to that age.

                                                        Kathleen

                                                        #20963
                                                        Anonymous
                                                            • Topics: 410
                                                            • Replies: 3735
                                                            • Total: 4145
                                                            • Practcally Cretan
                                                            • ★★★★★★
                                                            Member since: 1st January 1970

                                                            7F326C6A73070 wrote: That rate only applies to over 65’s John. £6475 up to that age.

                                                            Please explain to me how I could have drawn a UK Govt pension before I was 65.

                                                            As we are being pedantic, the exact allowance is £9,490 and not the £9,300 I quoted. This increases to £9,640 when you reach 75 years of age.

                                                            John

                                                            #20983
                                                            Crete4me
                                                                • Topics: 12
                                                                • Replies: 244
                                                                • Total: 256
                                                                • Practcally Cretan
                                                                • ★★★★★★
                                                                Member since: 14th November 2005

                                                                If you are resident in Greece then you shpuld be paying tax in Greece on all your earning EXCEPT any government pensions, be that the state pension for over 65’s or any other type of pension paid by the state, which do not have to be declared here.

                                                                #20998
                                                                Crete4me
                                                                    • Topics: 12
                                                                    • Replies: 244
                                                                    • Total: 256
                                                                    • Practcally Cretan
                                                                    • ★★★★★★
                                                                    Member since: 14th November 2005

                                                                    Plenty of bedtime reading to be found here:

                                                                    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/CNR/app_dtt.htm

                                                                    #21013
                                                                    Anonymous
                                                                        • Topics: 410
                                                                        • Replies: 3735
                                                                        • Total: 4145
                                                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                                                        • ★★★★★★
                                                                        Member since: 1st January 1970

                                                                        I have now done a bit more research and it would seem that the benefit of being taxed in Greece as opposed to the UK will depend on your income.

                                                                        The personal allowance is higher in Greece but what you receive over your allowance is taxed at at 25% compared with the 20% you would pay in the UK.

                                                                        The original questioner was asking about pensions so I will assume that he/she gets a personal allowance of £9,490 in the UK. The figures look like this:

                                                                        Total pensions £15,000 (16,745 Euros at todays rate)
                                                                        UK Tax:
                                                                        £9490.00   Nil
                                                                        £5510 @ 20% = £1,102 Tax.
                                                                        Greek Tax:
                                                                        12,000 Euro  Nil
                                                                        4,745 Euro @ 25% = 1,186 Euro (£1,062)

                                                                        Total Pensions £20,000 (22,327 Euro)
                                                                        UK Tax:
                                                                        £9,940 Nil
                                                                        £10,510 @ 20% = £2,102
                                                                        Greek Tax:
                                                                        12,000 Euro Nil
                                                                        10,327 @ 25% = 2,581 (£2,312)

                                                                        So if your pensions total £15,000 you save £40 by being taxed in Greece but if your pensions total £20,000 you loose £210.

                                                                        I will leave you to work out the break even point which will, of course, depend on the exchange rate.

                                                                        John

                                                                        References:
                                                                        http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm
                                                                        http://www.worldwide-tax.com/greece/greece_tax.asp
                                                                        http://www.pounds2euro.com/

                                                                        #21024
                                                                        x5kmt
                                                                        Participant
                                                                            • Topics: 29
                                                                            • Replies: 679
                                                                            • Total: 708
                                                                            • Practcally Cretan
                                                                            • ★★★★★★
                                                                            Member since: 12th November 2005

                                                                            051E14570 wrote: Please explain to me how I could have drawn a UK Govt pension before I was 65.

                                                                            Excuse me for daring to contradict you, but quite simply you would have had to be a woman, John.

                                                                            The fact remains, and I am certainly not not being pedantic, that the higher tax allowance does not apply until the ‘pensioner’ reaches the age of 65.

                                                                            I am aware that some of the ladies who read this site are in fact below the age of 65 and in receipt of a UK state pension. They will therefore only be entitled to the lower taxable allowance.

                                                                            Kathleen

                                                                            #21034
                                                                            altohb
                                                                                • Topics: 49
                                                                                • Replies: 223
                                                                                • Total: 272
                                                                                • Practcally Cretan
                                                                                • ★★★★★★
                                                                                Member since: 10th July 2007

                                                                                The crucial points are these:

                                                                                1. If you are classed as resident in Crete, then you should be declaring your occupational pension here, but not any government pension (including the State Pension and anything accrued by working for the Government).

                                                                                2. The tax free allowance for pensioners in Crete, whatever their nationality, is 12,000 euros. That in the UK is as stated below. You could, therefore, qualify for the nil tax band in both jurisdictions if your occupational pension is below 12000 euros (declared here) and your state or other government pension is below the UK levels (age related).

                                                                                The crucial point is that it is residence status that matters to the Greek government. If you are resident, tax wise, then occupational pensions, and bank interest, should be declared. It is all on the tax return!

                                                                              Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
                                                                              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
                                                                              Scroll To Top