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  • #44957
    latsida
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        #45396
        nickygirl
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            #45630
            sokin
                • Topics: 11
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                you cant really ban the party due to the constitution. you can only take individuals link to golden dawn to court-prison.
                people voted for them as a result of the past political parties not doing what they should properly. something like UKIP in UK that takes more and more power ever time.
                since its an elected party it will remain in parliament till the next elections which will indicate if it will stay or not.

                its a well known ‘secret’ for years that the greek police is round about 1/3 taken over by right-far right-Nazi-fascist people. its been like that for ages. even since 1974 after the military junta. they train them that way, they infiltrate that way and make sure you are either following their ways or simply stay out of their way.

                #45802
                handy harry
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                    they forget what their grandparents suffered under the nazi`s during WW2,

                    #45915
                    sokin
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                        60627B6869523F526E7F6879680D0 wrote: they forget what their grandparents suffered under the nazi`s during WW2,

                        and under the English pushing for the not wanted king of Greece to return.
                        and under the americans pushing for a civil war.
                        and under the soviets pushing for a left controlled state.

                        yes we have short memory and we always let others boss us around rather than working together as a nation for our own common good…. :-/

                        #45994
                        Topdriller
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                            Sokin,

                            Sadly, Greece is paying for their corrupt past and jobs for votes. Both Pasok and ND have played this game for decades and the electorate have been complicit because they took the ‘tainted drachma’ in return for voting for the politicians who hired them.

                            Golden Dawn is a vote of desperation and unless Samaras and his coalition can turn the economy around – which looks increasingly unlikely – then what other choice do people have apart from Syriza which is also an anathema for many?

                            The only people who can change things are the educated youth but with 60% unemployment many have been forced to leave the country and find employment elsewhere.

                            So where does this leave Greece?  Militant unions who over the years have ‘won’ outrageous benefits so their members will vote for either Pasok or ND only want to retain said benefits.  Closed shops that again reward the few and do nothing for the economy or entrepreneurship.  The old who fear change and will continue to vote for anyone who promises a return to what they now view as ‘the good old days’.  The middle classes have been squeezed to such an extent that they need someone to blame for their pay cuts, pension cuts, huge tax rises.

                            Enter Golden Dawn and the irrational blaming of hard working immigrants (legal or otherwise) who mainly do the jobs the Greeks, until very recently, did not want to do.

                            Anyone who knows their history can’t help but notice the link between today and Germany in the twenties and thirties.  Golden Dawn would not be where they are unless desperate people were voting for them!!

                            Jon

                            #46046
                            Herby
                                • Topics: 3
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                                7A415E4A5C4742424B5C2E0 wrote:
                                Enter Golden Dawn and the irrational blaming of hard working immigrants (legal or otherwise) who mainly do the jobs the Greeks, until very recently, did not want to do.
                                Jon

                                Been to Athens recently Jon?

                                If you had you would have found thousands of "illegals" living under every road bridge, on the beaches and shanty towns springing up on every vacant lot.

                                "who mainly do the jobs the Greeks, until very recently, did not want to do." When did Greeks wash windscreens at every set of traffic lights and kick your car if you declined their services? When did Greeks hawk around bootleg CD’s and fake designer bags? Did Greeks send their kids out to rob tourists and beg in the streets? I don’t think so!

                                I have no sympathy for GD and its followers but when successive governments and the EU have turned a blind eye to what is now a massive problem, you cannot blame the population for expressing their disgust and taking their own action.

                                I suggest you visit Athens, it will open your eyes!

                                #46088
                                Topdriller
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                                    Herby,

                                    I was last in Athens two months ago.  Go to Chania harbour and you’ll see beggars, gypsies and various ethnic people peddling knocked off wares.

                                    But wait, go to London, Edinburgh, Paris, Berlin and you’ll see and experience the same thing.

                                    Are you really blaming these people for Greece’s ills, for the decades of corruption, cronyism and tax evasion? 

                                    But wait, did not Hitler blame the Jews for all Germany’s self inflicted ills?

                                    Jon

                                    #46124
                                    Herby
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                                        467D6276607B7E7E7760120 wrote:
                                        Are you really blaming these people for Greece’s ills, for the decades of corruption, cronyism and tax evasion?
                                        Jon

                                        Please read what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote. I blame the politicians.

                                        557C796371667564100 wrote:
                                        I have no sympathy for GD and its followers but when successive governments and the EU have turned a blind eye to what is now a massive problem, you cannot blame the population for expressing their disgust and taking their own action.

                                        #46155
                                        Topdriller
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                                            Herby,

                                            You said, "…you would have found thousands of "illegals" living under every road bridge, on the beaches and shanty towns springing up on every vacant lot."

                                            You said, "you cannot blame the population for expressing their disgust and taking their own action…"

                                            So what actions aren’t you blaming them for taking? 

                                            Is it intimidating, beating and in some cases murdering people they think should not be in the country?  Or is it turning a blind eye while others purport to do it in their name?

                                            Jon

                                            #46180
                                            Herby
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                                                Jon

                                                Go pick a fight with some one else ‘cos I ain’t playing.

                                                You know everything – so what is your solution?

                                                #46199
                                                Topdriller
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                                                    Herby,

                                                    As I recall, I directed my original reply to Sokin and you suggested I should go to Athens and check out the burgeoning illegal migrant situation. I think your comment re picking a fight was a little ingenuous but then again, I do know everything  :)

                                                    As for a solution, there is no solution.  The affluent West will always be a magnet for disadvantaged migrants looking for work to feed themselves and their families.  And when they can’t find work they will find other means to feed themselves and their families.  Anyone of us would do the same thing if the proverbial sandal was on the other foot.

                                                    Jon

                                                    #46214
                                                    handy harry
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                                                        Being rather insular, i feel that the Greeks have had a raw deal and GD gains from this discontent but the neo nazi element thankfully will put paid to its rise and the inherent decency of the Greek people will put an end to it but a new more acceptable party may rise from it`s core base. :question

                                                        #46224
                                                        Topdriller
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                                                            50524B5859620F625E4F5849583D0 wrote: Being rather insular, i feel that the Greeks have had a raw deal and GD gains from this discontent but the neo nazi element thankfully will put paid to its rise and the inherent decency of the Greek people will put an end to it but a new more acceptable party may rise from it`s core base. :question

                                                            Sadly, things appear to be getting worse, not better.

                                                            http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/26/greece-democracy-backslide-coup-threat

                                                            Jon

                                                            #46233
                                                            handy harry
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                                                                The problem with anonymous blogs purporting to come from known organizations is they can stir up the wrong element, they must trace the blogger then deal with the person, not unlike the GD thug element who may be responsible for the blog.

                                                                #46242
                                                                Topdriller
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                                                                    #46249
                                                                    latsida
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                                                                        blogs reporting on blogs ;)

                                                                        ‘Antonis Samaras, admitted it was worried by a call for a military coup posted overnight on Wednesday on the website of the Special Forces Reserve Union. " from the Guardian report

                                                                        and from the KeeptalkingGreece blog

                                                                        "The statement was interpreted as a call to a “coup d’ etat” with the joint-action of army and citizens. Not a few show also a link between a “nationalist” KEED and extreme-right Golden Dawn.

                                                                        Earlier today, the KEED dismissed claims it had called for a coup d’ etat and any links to Golden Dawn. In a new statement uploaded on its website,"

                                                                          not to forget Twitter on the same Keeptalking Greece blog site

                                                                        "Making fun on Twitter

                                                                        While the state authorities are alarmed, Greek internet users found the chance to make fun of the possible or impossible threat to Greek democracy, … “the upcoming coup d’ etat. Greeks  created a hashtag on Twitter #praksikopima_Sept28. The majority of Tweeps declared they had other plans ( weddings, hairdresser visits, cocktail parties, outdoor activities, supermarket purchases, dinner with granny etc) for Saturday, September 28th 2013 and requested that the coup would be postponed on a later date.

                                                                        Others stressed the difficulty to stage a coup d’ etat nowadays, when strict Troika imposed austerity affected also the Greek Armed Forces:"

                                                                        #46255
                                                                        Topdriller
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                                                                            I’m guessing most people know how subversion works, what propaganda is and how to cause doubt and mistrust inside an elected body? 

                                                                            The CIA have been doing it for years and it played a major part in the overthrow of a number of East European Governments.

                                                                            The very fact that people are talking about it, even as high as Samaras’ office, demonstrates the ability of the written word to subvert.

                                                                            People are desperate and many don’t see any light at the end of an already long (5 year) tunnel. 

                                                                            The Greeks and revolution have been synonymous over the years and when there’s a Government in place that shows little understanding of the real hardships people are facing then subversion may well take hold – even if started by some para military blogger in an Internet cafe in Athens.

                                                                            Jon

                                                                            #46260
                                                                            Topdriller
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                                                                                6B6673746E6366070 wrote: Others stressed the difficulty to stage a coup d’ etat nowadays, when strict Troika imposed austerity affected also the Greek Armed Forces:"

                                                                                Remember Yugoslavia and the disastrous civil war that erupted in the early nineties.  It might be worth reminding ourselves of how this war started and who was monitoring the situation at the time.

                                                                                "An economic crisis erupted in the 1970s which was the product of disastrous errors by Yugoslav governments, such as borrowing vast amounts of Western capital in order to fund growth through exports.

                                                                                Western economies then entered recession, blocked Yugoslav exports and created a huge debt problem. The Yugoslav government then accepted the IMF loan.

                                                                                In 1989, according to official sources, 248 firms were declared bankrupt or were liquidated and 89,400 workers were laid off. During the first nine months of 1990 directly following the adoption of the IMF programme, another 889 enterprises with a combined work-force of 525,000 workers suffered the same fate.

                                                                                In other words, in less than two years "the trigger mechanism" (under the Financial Operations Act) had led to the lay off of more than 600,000 workers out of a total industrial workforce of the order of 2.7 million. An additional 20% of the work force, or half a million people, were not paid wages during the early months of 1990 as enterprises sought to avoid bankruptcy.

                                                                                The largest concentrations of bankrupt firms and lay-offs were in Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Kosovo. Real earnings were in a free fall and social programmes had collapsed; creating within the population an atmosphere of social despair and hopelessness. This was a critical turning point in the events to follow."

                                                                                Does this not sound a little like Greece in 2013, albeit without the religious mix?

                                                                                Jon

                                                                                #46264
                                                                                handy harry
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                                                                                    Hopefully the arrest of the GD leader will put an end to this odious party, we can only live in hopes that some change for the good will come of it and stop the thuggery.

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