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  • #17037
    sokin
        • Topics: 11
        • Replies: 368
        • Total: 379
        • Practcally Cretan
        • ★★★★★★
        Member since: 15th May 2007

        well since most of the brits that are looking for a job dont speak greek i had a thought.
        you can register your self as a cleaner-self employed. you need minimum 3 persons to sign the paper that they employ you and that you dont have anybody else working for you.
        then you can set out an advert that you are cleaning and taking care of gardens, houses etc durring summer and winter months for the other brits or anyone that just own a house-apt-villa here and they still live elswhere. if you do your job properly the word of mouth will spread and you will have a stable income even if cleaning or taking care of a house once per week. all you need is 5-7 house to do it since how many hours will you spend in each house if owners are not there and you just look after it?
        looking after a house for those abroad can be easy with you paying a visit there once per week to check if all ok and taking care of the bills. something like that can have a small fee per month rather than minimum wage as you will not be working there full time nor dailly.
        the minimum wage per day here is 16 or 19 euro and this is what you have to declare which will be taxed.
        i dont know if you understand me the way i say it.

        taking a step further if some of you are official plumbers-electricians etc in the UK then the fellow brits will trust you. do the same thing in order to have IKA and work unofficially for those house owners that need your services but on your proffecion. just make sure your fellow greek technicians will not find out as you will face major problems.
        another step forward. all of you cleaners-electricians etc exchange phone numbers and work co-operating by operating in areas and offering your service on a fixed price so you will not have competition between you and at the same time collectivly by each helping each other with recomentations and in an un-official company that look after houses.
        if at the end of the day you see that it does work then you can all set up a company and do it officially like cleaners and maintentace of properties. still try to get the needed authorization of each proffecion in order to work legally in the things that you know best and have been trained for.

        do you see the big picture? how many of you are looking for a job and you are in chania? co-operate and split the jobs in each village-area among you so those with to much work will assist those with less based on a number of minimum house per week per person.
        dont just sit around asking for jobs. make them happen. if all goes well in a couple of years those that have the guts and the willingness to do it will have set a company that will look after properties durring summer and winter months.
        just dont be shy and un-willing to get durt on your hands just coz you have a degree or higher education. a job is a job. and in those days having a job means a lot and peace of mind

        Compare hotel prices and find the best deal - HotelsCombined.com
        BullionVault

        #17309
        MartinP
            • Topics: 82
            • Replies: 581
            • Total: 663
            • Practcally Cretan
            • ★★★★★★
            Member since: 27th July 2007

            Don’t just sit around asking for jobs. Make them happen.

            Excellent advice, Sokin.

            #17513
            the_truth_is_there
                • Topics: 5
                • Replies: 14
                • Total: 19
                • BIC Junior Member
                • ★★★
                Member since: 25th September 2007

                6A76727077190 wrote: you can register your self as a cleaner-self employed. you need minimum 3 persons to sign the paper that they employ you and that you dont have anybody else working for you. 

                I don’t understand this at all. You can either be self-employed, or employed. But your two sentences seem to contradict this, and each other.

                If you are self-employed, registration is not simple. And when you’ve done that, even if you don’t employ anyone else, you have to pay the added cost of OAEE/OGA or other self-employed insurance scheme, plus an accountant, plus VAT returns, annual returns, pay taxes etc etc.

                If you are employed, then your employer has to pay you IKA and minimum wage for 14 months p.a., with long-term rights after 1 years’ employment.

                Please could you explain this in more detail, because you seem to be proposing a scheme that gets around most European employment laws?

                #17656
                Topdriller
                    • Topics: 76
                    • Replies: 1435
                    • Total: 1511
                    • Practcally Cretan
                    • ★★★★★★
                    Member since: 3rd March 2007

                    2F333735325C0 wrote: do you see the big picture?

                    Sokin,

                    Your post made me smile. Greece is going through the worst period since the end of the War and you’re giving advice to the Brits re tax a avoidance and how to form a monopolistic cartel !!

                    Surely what Greece needs is a) more competition so prices come down, b) everyone to pay their fair share of taxes and c) an enterprising culture which embraces entrepreneurs, whether they be Greek or incomers?

                    But since this will never happen – at least no time soon – then your advice is sound (which is why your post made me smile!!)

                    Jon

                    #17760
                    latsida
                    Participant
                        • Topics: 165
                        • Replies: 2407
                        • Total: 2572
                        • Practcally Cretan
                        • ★★★★★★
                        Member since: 17th October 2006

                        Hi Jon,
                        Yes ,Sokin always has a different perspective on issues and it is a shame that he does not post more often.
                        Sokin gave that advice last year long before all the recent problems with the Greek debt,maybe even before the election ,can’t remember the date for that offhand.
                        when you say Greece is going through the worst period since the war do you mean WW2 , or their Civil war or the worst time for them which was the dictatorship that lasted till 1974.

                        #17837
                        the_truth_is_there
                            • Topics: 5
                            • Replies: 14
                            • Total: 19
                            • BIC Junior Member
                            • ★★★
                            Member since: 25th September 2007

                            Usually, Sokin’s posts contain sensible advice.

                            I was therefore surprised when he posted advice that seemed to be both illogical and criminal.

                            Three days later, I’m still waiting for his reply to my questions.

                            Sokin, any chance of you clarifying your posting or responding to my reply, or are you happy to encourage immigrants to avoid tax and work in the black economy?

                            #17896
                            sokin
                                • Topics: 11
                                • Replies: 368
                                • Total: 379
                                • Practcally Cretan
                                • ★★★★★★
                                Member since: 15th May 2007

                                4559546E45434445596E58426E4559544354310 wrote:

                                you can register your self as a cleaner-self employed. you need minimum 3 persons to sign the paper that they employ you and that you dont have anybody else working for you. 

                                I don’t understand this at all. You can either be self-employed, or employed. But your two sentences seem to contradict this, and each other.

                                If you are self-employed, registration is not simple. And when you’ve done that, even if you don’t employ anyone else, you have to pay the added cost of OAEE/OGA or other self-employed insurance scheme, plus an accountant, plus VAT returns, annual returns, pay taxes etc etc.

                                If you are employed, then your employer has to pay you IKA and minimum wage for 14 months p.a., with long-term rights after 1 years’ employment.

                                Please could you explain this in more detail, because you seem to be proposing a scheme that gets around most European employment laws?

                                forgive me father coz i have seaned…i have a real life and i had to make you wait some days before i replied……

                                self employed cleaner means you pay your own VAT, IKA etc as you said.
                                if someone employ you (not to clean their house when you are self employed), they pay most of the IKA (yes you pay some as well even if you dont know it) and you get to have holidays etc as you said.

                                now in order to be self employed as a cleaner you need 3 persons to sign a declaration paper that you clean for them. something like proof of employment… and since i have done that for my ex i know its easy to be done and not like doing the paper work for self employed of other professions. you dont need qualifications in order to clean… you dont have to go to university in order to clean… thus you dont need to go through the paperwork of the greek state accepting your degree as equal-similar to a greek one and to give you the right to work here…

                                regarding topdriller.. yes i can tell them how to get away with taxes…why??? coz the greek state is Fcuking me up either way with its illogical taxation system of me paying more in %% than the MP’s or the bank managers with the high bonuses. due to that i dont like to have partner of my finances (the greek taxation system). i do what i can for them not to know what i earn so i will not share with them. had they had a logical taxation system i would have loved to be fair with them and declare everything..
                                but to our point. since the law said that this much is the minimum you have to declare per day as earnings then thats what i will do. i follow the law and prove me wrong if you can or that i earn more…i give my reciepts… i am ligal….

                                cartel etc…. how many of you can actually go through the paperwork and the exams to prove to the greek state that you are good plumpers, electricians etc? i believe about 90% of you CANT. so do what i say and run your business. illigal!!!! 100% illigal!!!! but you have a job, you have food on your table, and the money for the rent. that gives you extra time to start working on your way to get the ok from the greek state on running your own business on your profession….

                                you still dont see the big picture.. its not about waiting for a job, its not about complaining that you cant do your job, its not about saying crete doesnt have winter jobs…
                                its about all you working..if you want to have a job, you will have a job.. may that be collecting olives, building houses or anything that you can do (not want to do but can do)…
                                stop waiting, stop complaining.. how many of the ex estern countries come here with diplomas in chemistry or what ever else you can think of and they worked in jobs like that?? they did it. so can you.. i just gave you the way to do it through a way of having declared a profession in order to be able to do yours illigally…

                                #17945
                                sokin
                                    • Topics: 11
                                    • Replies: 368
                                    • Total: 379
                                    • Practcally Cretan
                                    • ★★★★★★
                                    Member since: 15th May 2007

                                    1C27382C3A2124242D3A480 wrote:

                                    do you see the big picture?

                                    Sokin,

                                    Your post made me smile.  Greece is going through the worst period since the end of the War and you’re giving advice to the Brits re tax a avoidance and how to form a monopolistic cartel !!

                                    Surely what Greece needs is a) more competition so prices come down, b) everyone to pay their fair share of taxes and c) an enterprising culture which embraces entrepreneurs, whether they be Greek or incomers?

                                    But since this will never happen – at least no time soon – then your advice is sound (which is why your post made me smile!!)

                                    Jon

                                    a)competition??? since when competition works?? in papers and in theory might do, but in practice not.. i work in the industry, i sell things, i know it doesnt..
                                    b) strangelly the new tax system in greece removes the parliament personel from it, it doesnt effect a lot the MP’s. etc etc etc. yes we all pay, but as always not all, but all that they always tax
                                    c) thats what i offered…in a way at least… let the others do the maths and work to make it happen

                                    #17986
                                    Topdriller
                                        • Topics: 76
                                        • Replies: 1435
                                        • Total: 1511
                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                        • ★★★★★★
                                        Member since: 3rd March 2007

                                        Sokin,

                                        Competition is important if you want to get the best price.  For example, I’m led to believe that one man owns the BMW franchise for Greece so the price of BMW cars is fairly standard across the country.  If there was more competition then individual dealers could give the client a better price and sell more cars, thereby allowing him to get larger bonuses from BMW i.e. everyone in the chain wins.

                                        And if one of the big four UK supermarkets opened up a few stores on Crete you’d see a fall in prices overnight – that’s the value of competition.

                                        Re taxes, until the doctors, lawyers, shop owners, tradesmen etc start putting all their business through the books it will remain unfair.  The low paid state employees pay tax but then have to get another job or jobs usually in the black economy just to make ends meet.

                                        What you suggested was fair enough but does nothing to change the bigger picture, which Greece will need to do if it wants to be a fully fledged and equal member of the EU.  Brussels has no choice now but to keep it’s eyes on Greece and unless the Government can make the top earners pay it’s the poor – as ever – who will suffer.

                                        Jon

                                        #18021
                                        the_truth_is_there
                                            • Topics: 5
                                            • Replies: 14
                                            • Total: 19
                                            • BIC Junior Member
                                            • ★★★
                                            Member since: 25th September 2007

                                            605B4450465D58585146340 wrote: What you suggested was fair enough 

                                            Was it? What about those cleaners or cleaning companies that do it legally and have to pay the overheads? Is that fair competition? Seems like you’re contradicting yourself there.

                                            And I still don’t understand (in Sokin’s scenario) why on earth "3 persons" would "sign the paper to say they employ you", thereby effectively turning themselves into 3 employers who would have to set up a business, pay their own OAEE/OGA, employ an accountant, make VAT/tax returns and so on, so they can then pay a minimum salary, IKA, holidays etc to the cleaner they’ve just employed? It makes the cleaner employed, not self-employed, and you can’t become an employer in most EU countries (including Greece) without a lot of overheads. Sokin’s scenario – unusually for him – is just not logical or realistic.

                                            If there are 3 such angels, please let me know their phone numbers!

                                            #18052
                                            sokin
                                                • Topics: 11
                                                • Replies: 368
                                                • Total: 379
                                                • Practcally Cretan
                                                • ★★★★★★
                                                Member since: 15th May 2007

                                                1509043E15131415093E08123E1509041304610 wrote:

                                                What you suggested was fair enough 

                                                Was it? What about those cleaners or cleaning companies that do it legally and have to pay the overheads? Is that fair competition? Seems like you’re contradicting yourself there.

                                                And I still don’t understand (in Sokin’s scenario) why on earth "3 persons" would "sign the paper to say they employ you", thereby effectively turning themselves into 3 employers who would have to set up a business, pay their own OAEE/OGA, employ an accountant, make VAT/tax returns and so on, so they can then pay a minimum salary, IKA, holidays etc to the cleaner they’ve just employed? It makes the cleaner employed, not self-employed, and you can’t become an employer in most EU countries (including Greece) without a lot of overheads. Sokin’s scenario – unusually for him – is just not logical or realistic.

                                                If there are 3 such angels, please let me know their phone numbers!

                                                ok i have not explained it correct..you still think that those that take me-you-she-he to clean their houses are employers of the cleaner when they are not!!! (and that is based on the greek law)

                                                you set up a self employed cleaning service. that means you need a reciept book stamped by IKA and you are ready. then you need 3 persons to say that you clean for them. they dont hire you!!! look at that point, just coz they said you clean for them, it doesnt mean that from now on you have to give reciepts with their name on. they are the starting three after that for each person that you clean you give a reciept and that can be 3, 12, 23, 33 or as many as you can per month.
                                                the starting 3 dont pay your tax, your ika your anything. they just declare that they employ you so that IKA will ”trust” them that you actually work as cleaner….its like the witnesses in courts in a way…. dont know the reason under which the greek state said 3 are the minimum needed persons to start with, but i do know that this is all it needs. (and a stamp with name-profession-address of you)
                                                after those 3 you can have as many as you wish, and you from what you earn you pay your IKA, your tax your everything.
                                                some of you actually might be cleaners. this is your way to do it. others might not, so this is your way to give reciepts for doing a service-working somewhere. some might consider it illegal. i consider it partially legal…

                                                #18079
                                                Guy
                                                    • Topics: 2
                                                    • Replies: 12
                                                    • Total: 14
                                                    • BIC Junior Member
                                                    • ★★★
                                                    Member since: 16th March 2010

                                                    Sokin,
                                                    I get what your saying, the "3" people are just the numbers needed to get your IKA proof to be able to go around and clean, rake leaves whatever is needed at who ever’s house etc. In the same way as you get milk from a milkman but you dont employ the milkman to deliver milk, you just pay him, is the way you mean you clean someones house they dont employ you they just pay you for the service. I think thats what you mean. If so then I also get that you need to go out and find the people that need work doing so as to earn.
                                                    Guy

                                                    #18104
                                                    Agnes
                                                        • Topics: 1
                                                        • Replies: 2
                                                        • Total: 3
                                                        • BIC 2.0 Newbie
                                                        Member since: 5th September 2010

                                                        Hello,
                                                        that´s what i am doing for now in portugal..only, my bosses are coming back soon an 3 will be a crowd no? ;O)
                                                        but my expiriance is that you must live in the area first to find out the were abouts..
                                                        but, you gave me an exelent idea…just now to see if its finincial  realisible…

                                                        thanks,
                                                        A

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