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making things legal

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  • #39860
    umaremasu in Crete
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        Ref the orientation of the pool. This was something our civil engineer person queried with the "illegal buildings" advisor from Athens, She was unsure whether it was a problem. He informed her it was and told her what the fine would be.
        As the civil engineer has to now sign off on the building on a resale, he/she risks her licence if it later turns out to be incorrect. I personally am not faulting her on this. She asked for advice from the official Athens "expert", end of story. However, whether the advice would have been different from another advisor equally official, who knows! :o

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        BullionVault

        #39884
        latsida
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            Hi Percy,
            yes I saw that the date had been extended on another forum but could find no reference anywhere to substantiate it, maybe you have one? I have a friend here who is anxious to know if she has missed the chance to apply .
            this was an article from 21 november and it stil quotes the end of november as do all the articles in Ekathimerini.
            http://www.theage.com.au/world/illegal-homes-fine-by-greece-20111120-1np9o.html

            here is the latest info from today’s Ekathimerini where it shows how much money has already been received and also gives the date as 30 November, oh well maybe as it seems to have been a success they will introduce another similar scheme in the near future
            http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_02/12/2011_417279

            #39905
            YoMo2
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                At risk of sounding pedantic, it may be worth noting that I think it has always been possible to "regularise" a building where there has been a minor variation from what was shown on the plans submitted for the permit. And I think this will still be possible regardless of any deadlines that may have applied too the recent amnesty. Obviously, opinions may vary as to what is meant by "minor".

                So, if you do not fall into the category of having built without a permit, or having built on land that should not have had a permit, or having built 3 floors instead of two etc etc, I think you should not panic.

                In any case, as the Greeks say, there’ll be another amnesty along in a minute…….. ;)

                Andrew

                #39925
                Lawman
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                    Has anyone actually had the full rules regarding payments to IKA, set down in legislation, translated for them by a reliable source? I enquire as we all know that if you ask anyone here it is likely to be a ‘local’ interpretation; frequently these explantions cannot quote the actual documentary source and are wrong. One only has to read the threads here and elsewhere to see the confusion that arises over quite simple issues.

                    Because of my background my inclination is always to read the Act and Schedules. I assume, but don’t know, that Greek legislation follows some similar form. It would be interesting to really know whether a lot of the ‘facts’ about what has to be reported and paid is simply hooey.

                    #39943
                    latsida
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                        of course it has Andrew, I could have gone that route years ago and paid the IKA and the fines but the cost would have probably been greater doing it that way than using the amnesty scheme ;)

                        #39959
                        Gem
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                            This might appear to be a daft question but I’ve got a feeing the answer will be yes! If you build something entirely yourself without employing someone, are you still expected to pay IKAs?

                            #39974
                            latsida
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                                yes

                                #39989
                                Gem
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                                    and the logic behind this is,

                                    a) to make more money for the government
                                    b) to discourage people from making home improvements, and therefore also
                                    c) to suppress the builder/DIY stores from expanding
                                    d) to keep as many people employed as possible in IKA offices
                                    e) to further stimulate frustrating paperwork
                                    f) all 5
                                    :-/

                                    #40004
                                    YoMo2
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                                        Quite right Gem, but mainly to stop the whole of Greece claiming they built their brand new villa by themselves and should not therefore pay any IKA…………. ;D

                                        #40019
                                        Lawman
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                                            And a question still is…What does the legislation say about this? Does anyone actually know?

                                            #40032
                                            umaremasu in Crete
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                                                The legislation changes week by week… :( Further frantic calls to and from lawyer!

                                                #40044
                                                latsida
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                                                    #40055
                                                    nickygirl
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                                                        what if you have an old house with no plans when you purchased, I am so confused by all this I spoke to my lawyer and now more confused …

                                                        #40066
                                                        latsida
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                                                            all houses have plans ,even very old ones like mine.
                                                            the Topograph should be with your Contract

                                                            #40076
                                                            nickygirl
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                                                                yes the answer to that is we do have a current 2006 topograph, but no, the topography is not a plan of the house, just the footprint of the land and property, is that sufficient for legally selling your house?

                                                                #40086
                                                                latsida
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                                                                    I think that recently the law was changed and now you would need some sort of proof of legality, but if your home is the same as shown on the plans eg. you have not added any new structures or living space then this should probably be straightforward, maybe someone who has just sold or bought a home recently could advise

                                                                    #40096
                                                                    YoMo2
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                                                                        This will sound a little pedantic, but to sell a property, you have to prove the building matches the permit, (not the plans). You might have plans that are different to what was submitted in your permit application. Quite common!

                                                                        Andrew

                                                                        #40105
                                                                        Fowles
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                                                                            Have been reading this thread again as a friend has been in touch regarding an email she received from her estate agent, informing her that she must have a certificate from her engineer to confirm that her property is legal i.e. no additions to the original plans. The agent has told her that although your property may have already been passed by the relevant inspections etc. that it is necessary to have another inspection done now and also to have a certificate of clearance in order that she can proceed with any sale that may or may not happen. The cost of the inspection and certificate is 300 Euros plus Vat.

                                                                            So, does that mean that every property owner in Greece (including myself!) must have another inspection done now (apparently she has been told that the deadline date is February 28th) and this certificate issued, whether or not you intend to sell your property? OR, as the estate agent has relayed to my friend, risk paying fines that will be backdated to the date that the law was issued? So, if you don’t have this certificate in 25 years when you decide to sell your house, you would be fined for all 25 years!!! And of course if you had made any new additions AFTER the certificate that you paid 300 Euros + VAT for, would you have to have another certificate issued at the time you decided to sell? MY HEAD HURTS!!

                                                                            Incidentally, the law that this relates to this has a number 4014/11 – I have looked this up on the internet but it is all in Greek and will not translate, so if anybody else wants some good bedtime reading, good luck!!

                                                                            #40114
                                                                            YoMo2
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                                                                                Hi Fowles

                                                                                The estate agent or your friend, or both, are confusing two different, but related, things.

                                                                                You only need the certificate regarding compliance with permit if and when you come to sell.

                                                                                Law 4014 was about an amnesty that allows people to regularise their property on payment of various fees and fines. This only gave you "protection" from prosecution for 30 years…..

                                                                                Many agents and engineers have been using the new law as a business generation exercise. Draw your own conclusions, but you certainly do not need to get the compliance certificate until you come to sell. I think you will find this is confirmed by the fact that it will only be valid for a short time. I do not know this for a fact, but if you think of the logic it must be the case as it would be pointless issuing a certificate of compliance 10 years before the house sale as anything could have been done to the house subsequently, as your post implies.

                                                                                Perhaps someone who has obtained a certificate of compliance, (not a regularisation sign-off), could tell us what it says about validity period.

                                                                                #40122
                                                                                Fowles
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                                                                                    YoMo2 – thank you, this clarifies things for me anyway!

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