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Vamos

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  • #42592
    footscapes
        • Topics: 11
        • Replies: 120
        • Total: 131
        • BIC Full Member
        • ★★★★★
        Member since: 6th April 2006

        It’s interesting to see the different tax outcomes in each country.

        There is (yet another) new Greek tax bill due out for 2013 (which will probably impact 2012 earnings). One of the measures widely trailed by the government is an increase to tax free allowances (perhaps in increments) back up to Eur 8000p.a.

        As far as I am concerned, the most iniquitous aspect of Greek taxation is the "imputed income" system, allocating notional incomes based on house, car, pool, boat etc ownership. The thresholds are crazy, and a small house + modest car can soon bump you up into a taxable income band rather higher than actual earnings.

        There is a lot of current press about the shocks caused in ordinary Greek families as this year’s tax demands hit the doormat. The imputed income system probably holds much of the blame for this and, as the Greek "won’t/can’t pay" attitude takes hold, it might just provoke a review. Unfortunately, there will be some other tax to plug the gap. I just hope it’s fairer.

        Paul

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        BullionVault

        #42604
        stavros
            • Topics: 4
            • Replies: 25
            • Total: 29
            • BIC Junior Member
            • ★★★
            Member since: 14th October 2011

            Paul,

            The imputed income tax system is yet another example of the out of control bureaucracy which so affects live in Europe. What f*****g right has a little Hitler in the Greek exchequer to decide how much anyone spends on their life? For example, someone who owns their house outright, lives frugally, and grows all their own veggies is likely to get by on much less than a bonehead kleptocrat decides. It’s not for governments to decide how much money we spend. I understand the thinking behind the approach, but that in no way lessens its utter stupidity. How about focusing on the elite who have squirrelled billions away in Swiss accounts. Rant over ;-).

            Stavros

            #42615
            footscapes
                • Topics: 11
                • Replies: 120
                • Total: 131
                • BIC Full Member
                • ★★★★★
                Member since: 6th April 2006

                At the risk of complete thread hijacking, this http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cretan-writes-heartfelt-letter-greek-irs surfaced this morning.

                The rebellion against arbitrary imputed income begins?

                Paul

                #42626
                stavros
                    • Topics: 4
                    • Replies: 25
                    • Total: 29
                    • BIC Junior Member
                    • ★★★
                    Member since: 14th October 2011

                    Paul,

                    I love this letter. With interest rates at close to zero, there must be many older people who are spending their savings to survive. The fact that their house might have an assessed value of X euros should have no bearing on their tax liability. If you don’t have income, how can it be just for the taxman to claim tax on an imaginary one. It’s not only mad, it’s criminal. As ever, it’s the little guys who’ll fall foul of this. I’m not a fan of the Human Rights legislation, but if ever here was a case for invoking your rights, this is it. Probably, the best solution is for all affected taxpayers to go on ‘tax strike’.

                    Stavros

                    #42635
                    Topdriller
                        • Topics: 76
                        • Replies: 1435
                        • Total: 1511
                        • Practcally Cretan
                        • ★★★★★★
                        Member since: 3rd March 2007

                        It may be iniquitous but with most Greeks evading tax one way or the other it’s the only way the Revenue service can assess earnings ie if you have a house, car, pool you must also have an income.  Both my neighbours are dentists with big houses. My own dentist never once gave me a receipt until this time last year and all payments were cash. He balked when I once proffered a credit card, although in fairness he did take it.

                        It’s wrong, it’s unfair but with accountants actively colluding with their clients to avoid at best, evade at worst what other options does a broke country have?

                        Jon

                        #42644
                        stavros
                            • Topics: 4
                            • Replies: 25
                            • Total: 29
                            • BIC Junior Member
                            • ★★★
                            Member since: 14th October 2011

                            Jon,

                            I understand. However, the solution cannot be to arbitarily decide what people, often retired people, earn. As I said in my post, many older people who previously relied on interest to meet their living costs, must now be digging into their savings to pay their way. Being asked for tax on  income you don’t have is not unfair, it’s criminal. The Greek authorities should be concentrating on recovering the billions sitting in Switzerland.
                            What a mess.

                            Stavros

                            #42653
                            latsida
                            Participant
                                • Topics: 165
                                • Replies: 2407
                                • Total: 2572
                                • Practcally Cretan
                                • ★★★★★★
                                Member since: 17th October 2006

                                Hi Stavros.
                                you are not being taxed on income you do not have , you are just asked to prove from where your money comes from if you do not earn any income in Greece.

                                the thinking behind that is that unless you can show where your money has come from then you must be earning money here and not declaring it therefore not paying tax.

                                lets face it we all need money to live (even if you grow your own produce and eat snails or rabbits ) just to pay the bills and run a vehicle etc.

                                People who are not classed as tax resident ( live here less than 183 days a year) no longer have to prove an imputed income.

                                in our case last year we had to provide proof with bank slips for just 8000 Euros that is just 160 a week for two people ( I do not have a car or a pool).
                                this was quite easy to do as we had sent over much more than that figure, I did not have to pay tax on that amount or indeed any income tax at all..

                                I certainly could not afford to live on the paltry interest of my capital but of course we both have our pensions.

                                #42660
                                stavros
                                    • Topics: 4
                                    • Replies: 25
                                    • Total: 29
                                    • BIC Junior Member
                                    • ★★★
                                    Member since: 14th October 2011

                                    Latsida,

                                    Many thanks for the info. It’s good that non-residents are spared this nonsense. People who are tax residents must find it really tedious to collect receipts in order to get their tax free allowance. Bureaucracy, don’t you just love it!

                                    Stavros

                                    #42667
                                    latsida
                                    Participant
                                        • Topics: 165
                                        • Replies: 2407
                                        • Total: 2572
                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                        • ★★★★★★
                                        Member since: 17th October 2006

                                        never been asked for receipts yet though I do collect them just in case ;)

                                        #42674
                                        stavros
                                            • Topics: 4
                                            • Replies: 25
                                            • Total: 29
                                            • BIC Junior Member
                                            • ★★★
                                            Member since: 14th October 2011

                                            Hi guys,

                                            Can anyone give me an idea on what building costs are doing?Are they the same as before the crisis, or have they dropped. An agent in Corfu told me that there was no difference there. That surprises me, but perhaps it’s true. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

                                            Stavros

                                            #42680
                                            daveellen
                                                • Topics: 25
                                                • Replies: 87
                                                • Total: 112
                                                • BIC Full Member
                                                • ★★★★★
                                                Member since: 25th January 2011

                                                We are being quoted from around 1100 a sq mtr to 1300, seems to be a reduction of around 12.5%? 
                                                Have had lower quotes but not sure that the quality would be the same. I’m assuming a 10-15% contingency to increase the spec where we want it and because I have never known any quote in any country to come in on target  ;D I don’t know the balance of labour to material but the decrease in cost per unit for the first will be balanced? outweighed? by the increase in the latter.

                                                #42686
                                                Topdriller
                                                    • Topics: 76
                                                    • Replies: 1435
                                                    • Total: 1511
                                                    • Practcally Cretan
                                                    • ★★★★★★
                                                    Member since: 3rd March 2007

                                                    Apart from bricks, cement and labour most of the other ‘good’s needed to build a house here on Crete are imported into Greece e.g. electrical, kitchen, plumbing, wood, aluminium, tiles etc. What’s more, all these imported goods have to come on a ferry from the mainland which increases the costs.

                                                    In addition, a significant number of builders have gone out of business so those that remain may now be able to charge a higher price because they do not have the same amount of competition they had in the boom years.

                                                    I’d suggest €1100 to €1300 per metre is a good average but, and as Dave says, that may well be for the basics and you will pay more if you want a higher standard of build, don’t want mould on the walls in the winter, don’t want a leaky flat roof, want the walls to be plumb etc.

                                                    Jon

                                                    #42692
                                                    MartinP
                                                        • Topics: 82
                                                        • Replies: 581
                                                        • Total: 663
                                                        • Practcally Cretan
                                                        • ★★★★★★
                                                        Member since: 27th July 2007

                                                        An English builder (here) charges about €15 an hour but you can get a couple of Albanians to work a whole day for a total of €50.

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